Unstoppable, Paul Watson´s battle from a greenland prison

Lovely ocean crime fans, we are back with a new episode, an interview with Paul Watson, a true legend for every one of us who's protecting the oceans and the planet, and he is fearless, and he is just right out of prison. He was five months in prison, and now he has time for an ocean crime episode with Madeleine.

I hope I can answer all your questions that you have and I'm really excited to be loud for him, and I think that is one of the biggest crimes worldwide for an NGO activist, because how the hell can people go to protect the oceans and the animals into prison and the people who are killing them are not, so stay tuned. Dive with me into this new episode.

For all those who would like to read the interview, we have prepared this blog post for you. And as usual, you can listen to the episode here.

 

 

What is this interview about?

Captain Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace and founder of several conservation societies, discussed his recent imprisonment in Greenland due to a Japanese extradition request related to his anti-whaling activities. Watson detailed the lengthy legal process, which took five months to resolve, leading to his release. He highlighted the criminal nature of Japan's whaling industry and his efforts to expose it through his television show, "Whale Wars." Watson emphasized the importance of protecting the ocean, noting that phytoplankton levels have decreased by 40% since 1950, threatening global oxygen production. He plans to continue his activism, focusing on intercepting whaling operations and addressing ghost fishing nets.

 

Paul Watson in the interview with Madeleine from BRACENET

 

Welcome Paul, thanks for coming. So what I do first, in my podcasts all the time, I like to take the people with me how it was for you and what your storyline is, and what you like to tell to the people. So first of all, maybe you can do a little introduction to the people who don't know you, but I think everybody knows you.

I'm Captain Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, and also the founder of Captain Paul Watson Foundation.

Okay, maybe let's start with the 21st of July, the morning where everything happens. How was the day for you? Did you have a feeling, what was about to happen? Or maybe you can just take us with you, what happened that day.

Well, on July 21 we came into Nuuk in Greenland to refuel our ship, the John Paul DeJoria. 12 days police officers boarded and said I was under arrest under a Japanese demand through Interpol, and then I was taken to the police station and then to prison. And I thought it would be dealt with quite quickly, because we had all the documentation and all of their charges, you know, I wasn't even present at the time that these alleged charges took place. I wasn't there. I was a part of the planning, and everything was on film, that one did happen, and nobody was hurt, and so I felt very confident that after looking at the evidence that we released, but a month later, they still hadn't looked at the evidence. Two months later, they still hadn't looked at the evidence. It took two and a half months before the police even questioned me, and then another month before the Ministry of Justice looked at the evidence, and I guess it took them five months to make a decision on whether to extradite me to Japan, and the decision was that they would not extradite me to Japan. So then I was released. Just this week, I got a call saying that the minister had made his decision. It was a political decision, and I was free to leave the prison.

And can you explain the case to the people out there, what really happened? And, what Japanese are saying, why did you actually go to prison?

Well, first of all, I want to say there is crime here. There's a criminal enterprise called the Japanese whaling industry killing whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary in violation of the International Whaling Commission's global moratorium on whaling, they are killing whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary that was held up by the International Court of Justice in the Hague in 2014 so this is a criminal enterprise. Now, their accusation against me is that in 2010 Pete Bethune, who was a captain of the ship, it wasn't my ship. He boarded a Japanese vessel and presented the captain there with a demand saying, look, you just destroyed my ship because the Shonan Maru who cut his vessel in half. It was a $2 million ship that was totally destroyed. Six crew members were thrown into the frigid waters of the Southern Ocean. One of the cameramen had his ribs broken, and so he said to the Captain, you're responsible for this. Their response was to take him all the way back to Japan on the ship, charging him with trespassing. And then they added charges of assault and obstruction of business. And they held him for two months in a Japanese prison, and then they made a deal with him. And the deal was, if you say that Paul Watson ordered you to do this, and we will give you a suspended sentence, which he did, and then they charged me with conspiracy. After Pete Bethune was released from prison, he then signed an affidavit saying that he lied to the prosecutor in order to get that suspended sentence and that I was not involved in any way in this so-called alleged offense. But the Japanese, of course, didn't care about that. The real reason that they are after me is because our television show Whale Wars expose their illegal whaling activities to millions of people. Will so cause embarrassment, humiliation to the Japanese government. So they want somebody to blame for that, and who better than the star of that particular television show myself?

Yeah, I think that is a crazy thing, that the people who like to protect the ocean, which is your daily business and what we are doing too, are charged with crimes and the people who are really doing the crimes are set free all the time. So your work is really important to all the people around the world and to all your supporters, and that's why we are supporting many NGOs worldwide to help the whales and all ocean animals of course. But for the time now, when you went to prison, did you have a daily routine or, what were your thoughts in prison?

Well, I had a lot to do. I received about 4500 letters from around the world to try to answer as many as possible, so in a lot of reading, a lot of writing there. And so I kept busy. As prisons go, it wasn't bad. My window of the prison cell overlooks the mountains, the icebergs, and in the summer, I was able to see whales. It was not much different than being on a ship in the Southern Ocean, and at the same time is like, when I go down to the southern ocean, spend four months on a ship, and being in a prison cell is pretty much the same thing, but without the risk of drowning, really. So it wasn't that much of an ordeal. Everybody in the prison was pretty friendly. The guards and prisoners were friendly. People in Greenland are friendly, very supportive. So I just looked at it as a five month opportunity to continue to expose Japan's illegal whaling operations, and also the added bonus of exposing Denmark's killing of pilot whales and dolphins in the Danish Faroe islands.

But it was a surprise for you that they had the authority to bring you to prison, right?

Well, nothing is ever a surprise. You always have to be prepared for things like this. And also, nothing is ever achieved without taking some sort of risks. And I knew there was a potential for being detained in Greenland. That was the possibility. But you also have to weigh, just how serious that would be. And I did have confidence in the fact that Denmark is a signatory to the Human Rights Commission and Japan's judicial system has been condemned by Amnesty International. And in the end, Japan could not guarantee to Denmark that I would be treated fair and just.

As an activist myself, I have a question: were you afraid at one point?

No, I've been doing this for 50 years, so you know, there's been a lot of risks and a lot of things. I just thought the first time I've been arrested, I've never been convicted of a crime, so I have no criminal record, but I have spent numerous times being jailed for our activities, but we've always won in the courts.

What does prison look like in Greenland? Can you explain that? Maybe some people will do the same, like you, and maybe are afraid of everything that might be coming to them. So can you explain how it really was? How it felt, how it looked, how it smelled, and how the people were treating you?

Well, it's a very modern prison. From the outside, it looks like you're in a Gulag in Russia, cold and bleak, but inside, everybody's friendly. Most of the prisoners and guards are from Greenland. When I say it's a modern prison, for example, they don't have meals. They give you money every Wednesday, and then you get to buy your own food in the prison store and cook it in a common kitchen. So if you're a vegetarian, then you can be vegetarian, whatever you want. So in that respect, it was very enlightening. So it wasn't really as prisons go, let's just say it wasn't that bad. So, but it's still a prison and again, every situation really presents an opportunity to take advantage of, and the opportunity of being in this prison was to focus attention on what Japan and Denmark were doing to the ocean.

So have you had the chance to speak to your family or to the outside and to keep doing your work? It sounds like you were working all the time.

Yeah, certainly. The first thing I did was call my family. So, I'm looking forward to seeing them in two days in Paris. But the work continues in the prison. Outside of prison, we're now planning on confronting Iceland next June, and then when they attempt to go whaling, we have a ship ready to intercept the Japanese and they return to the Southern Ocean. And there's numerous other projects we're involved with, with Sea Shepherd, France and Brazil. And so there's never a lack of things to do, I'll continue to do what I've been doing for the last half a century.

And when you came in, did you think it would take so long? I read the news, and I don’t really have an answer why it took so long. What were you feeling when you just came in, and was it clear for you that it could take that long?

Well, I think, the wheels of justice turned very slowly in Denmark. Like I said, it took three months before they even looked at the evidence. So I think there was a really difficult diplomatic situation for them. And so they made the only decision they could make. Japan's not happy with the decision. I'm quite happy with it.

And was it unclear till the last moment, you said the time was 08:46, when you got the news that you were able to go out? Wasn't it clear till then that you're not going to Japan?

Well, on December 2, I was told the attorney general would make his decision in 14 days. So I was just waiting for that. I was pretty much 90% sure that would not be extradited. There was always that 10% but there always is. But then, if that had been the case, and if the order had been to be extradited, then we would have simply appealed to the Supreme Court and to the European Commission on Human Rights. So that would have probably meant staying in prison longer, but ultimately I would not be sent to Japan.

And where's your ship now? You look stronger than before. There's a lot of work going on, and I have the feeling you just move out, go on the ship and go on. But what happened to your ship outside?

It is in Bermuda right now, and it'll be in position to intervene against Iceland's whaling in the new year. The Bandera is in Australia, and it'll be prepared to intercept the Japanese whaling fleet if they go down to the southern ocean. And we have smaller vessels with Sea Shepherd France and Sea Shepherd Brazil, and we'll be doing various campaigns protecting turtles, orcas, things like this. The other thing we want to do in the new year is to go to Interpol headquarters in Lyon, France and confront them on the political abuse of Interpol's authority, acting as agents for governments to shut blowers and people who are trying to oppose the criminal activities of these governments.

And you already have a new plan, how do you want to go on? So what is your priority for now, of course, after being with the family. What are the first things you are looking at and working on?

Well, the first thing I do is come up a few days before Christmas. So I'll be with my two little boys, and in the new year, then we will make plans on which campaigns we'll be doing, and where we'll be going. I'm also engaged. I'm writing a children's book and working on some film documentaries, and I'll be doing some university lectures.

And how can the people support the Paul Watson foundation when they hear this podcast? What can everybody do to support your work?

They can certainly look us up on social networks where we have our website and get involved as you wish to, not only for donations, but also if people want to actively participate as crew members and go to sea.

And what is your advice for people who are planning to be an activist, and they’re maybe a little bit shy. Just something in the beginning to do on their own. What's your advice with your experience?

I think that people should follow their passion. What are you passionate about? And be prepared to do something about it. Each and every one of us can make a difference. All we have to do is apply the virtues of passion and courage and imagination and not to be deterred by criticism. And the strength of an ecosystem is in diversity. Therefore the strength of any movement is in diversity, diversity of approaches, strategies. And so this is the kind of thing we want to encourage. If you just champion a particular species or particular habitat, and all of this cumulative put together creates a movement which can make a difference.

And how do you create a campaign? Or how do you come up with your ideas? Do you just see which animal is endangered the most and create something around it? Or how do you start with a new idea to save parts of the world or a specific animal?

Well, we don't protest. So what we do is we look at where there's violations of international conservation law, and we intervene where we see those violations. Icelandic whaling is illegal, Japanese whaling is illegal. So that's what we look for. We have all the rules and the regulations and the treaties to protect the ocean. What we don't have is the economic political will on the part of governments to uphold those conservation laws. They just don't seem to be interested. So beyond 200 miles is sort of the Wild West. They do whatever they want, exploit whatever they want, and it's really left up to non government organizations and individuals to intervene to uphold those international conservation laws.

What is the biggest thing from the past? Maybe a story about an animal, or a thing that you did or achieved, is there something out of your whole career that stays with you every day, that is really important to you?

Well, the thing I'm most proud of is the fact that over 10 years, we were able to drive the Japanese whaling fleet out of the Southern Ocean, and in the process, save the lives of 6500 whales. And since 1974 until now, we have shut down whaling operations in Australia, South Korea, Chile, Peru, Spain, South Africa. In fact, about 90% of the world's whaling has been stopped, and now it's restricted to the territorial waters in Japan, Iceland and Norway. So as of 2019 there were no whales killed in international waters. We want to try and keep those international waters whaler free, so a lot has been achieved over the last 50 years. It's my lifelong ambition to eradicate whaling before I die, and so that's what I'm invested in doing.

We are working a lot with ghost fishing nets and the fishing industry and we’re trying to get the nets out of the sea and upcycle them into many different products and sell them and by that financing NGOs and projects around the world. Did you see the problem of the ghost nets during your work with the whales as well? Of course, you also have different themes. But is there something you could say about that problem as well?

I have seen the problem with discarded fishing gear and ghost nets ever since I was a child. I was actually raised in a fishing village in Eastern Canada, so it's been an ongoing problem. We have pulled really tons and tons of nets out of the water. In 2015 we found one yield net in the Southern Ocean. It took 110 hours to pull this net up. The net was two kilometers deep. It was 75 kilometers long, and it weighed 70 tons. And that's from one net from one ship, which gives you an idea of just how bad this problem is. I would say at any given time, there's probably enough net and long line to go around the planet at most 60 times. It's an incredible amount of plastic fishing gear. And in addition, all the other plastics are in the ocean. And this is because plastics break down into micro plastics that get swallowed by fish. You can feed the bird, birds die. Fish die. It's becoming a very difficult problem. Back in 1985 when I started to talk about plastic pollution in the ocean, all of the environmental groups said, that's ridiculous. So, you know, plastic is not a problem. It's not gonna hurt anybody and everything. And even when I was a national director, the Sierra Club had brought up, they said, Well, this is ridiculous. There's far more important things than plastic in the ocean. And as it turns out, it's one of the major problems.

And back to your time at prison, now you are out. My question, and I think also from the supporters, is: Is the case done now, or are you awaiting more time in prison? What's going on now for you?

There's still an Interpol Red Notice out on me, so theoretically, I could be arrested in other countries. I'm safe in France, and I'm safe in Ireland, I'm safe in the United States. But I mean, it could go to say, I went to Mexico. I could be arrested there. I don't know, but that's why we're kind of going to confront Interpol and get to the bottom of this and get them to stop not only abusing their authority in my case, but in other cases of people where governments have gone after them and interval red notices for such things that for political interference or obstructing corporations or whatever like this, these are hardly crimes. The red notice was actually set up originally to deal with war criminals, serial killers, traffickers. We're talking about major crimes. I think I'm the only person in history to have a red notice issued for trespassing, conspiracy to trespass, which really indicates the political nature of the charges.

Are you afraid of anything in the world?

Well, like I said, I've been doing this for over half a century, and it's taken numerous risks over there. You get to the point where it's just part of what you do, and you know you're gonna die sometime. If you're not afraid to die, then you're not afraid of anything you can do anything, you put your mind to it, and none of us live forever, so you got to do as much as you can while you still have life in you. And the best way to spend your life is protecting life, defending life, defending the integrity, the ecological integrity of the planet that we live on.

Is there anything that you'd like to share that is important to you, that you would like to say to the people who are listening right now?

I've been writing children's books. My last children's book was called „near the ocean“. And the idea of trying to convince people that when people think about the ocean, they think about the seaside, the beach, going surfing or whatever. But the ocean is everything. The ocean is the planet. This is a Planet Ocean. It is water and continuous circulation, sometimes in the sea, sometimes locked in ice, sometimes underground, sometimes in the clouds, and it's always in the cells of every living plant and animal on the planet. So the ocean is moving through us all the time. So the water in your body right now is once in the sea. What's in the ice once underground? It is the one element that connects all living things on this planet. So the answer to what the ocean is - we are the ocean. We're all linked in. Therefore we have a duty to protect that thing which keeps all of us alive. And that all sums up when I say all the time as the ocean dies, we die. We do not live on this planet with a dead ocean. And the most serious problem facing our future is the fact that since 1950 there's been a 40% decrease in phytoplankton in the sea. Phytoplankton provides up to 70% of the oxygen in the air we breathe, and sequesters enormous amounts of CO2. If phytoplankton were to disappear from the sea, we would all die. We don't live on a planet without phytoplankton, and why has it been diminished by 40% because we're killing off the whales and the dolphins, fishes and the sea birds, and they provide the nutrient base for the phytoplankton, the magnesium, the iron and the nitrogen that's provided in the feces. I mean, one blue whale every day dumps three tons of manure, basically on the surface of the sea. It has a huge amount of nutrients in it and so the whales in reality, are the farmers of the ocean, fertilizing these vast crops and phytoplankton, which in turn feed the zoo plankton, in turn feed the fishes. So it provides our food, it provides our oxygen, sequesters CO2. This is the life support system of the planet, and for the most part, we're unaware of it. We don't really give much thought to it.

Yes, true words. What is your favorite animal in the world and why?

I don't actually have any favorite animals. I don't think you can really have a favorite animal. Everything is interconnected. So it doesn't matter whether it's a bacteria or Great Whale, everything has its interdependence reason for being, and we have to learn to live in harmony with all species. There's no bad species. There's no good species. We might interpret that this species is bad because we don't like it. But you know, everything has its purpose.

I love the answer and the last question, how can people work with you together in the foundation? Are there any jobs that are available? Are they on the website? What is the best way to support it directly, or to work with you?

Look up the Captain Paul Watson foundation on the internet, or Sea Shepherd for France or Brazil, and follow that, and there's all kinds of opportunities for getting involved.

Perfect. So thank you very much for your time, for what you are doing for the oceans and for the world and for the animals, that is incredible. I wish you a nice holiday with your children and with your family, and that you stay safe, of course, with all your activities that you are planning in the future, that we are following. I can't say that enough. Thank you very much. So have a great day.